Talk: Scenario

How does a scenario differ from a mod?

How does a scenario differ from a mod? They have similar descriptions on this wiki. -- Robin Patterson (Talk) 04:36, September 30, 2014 (UTC)

I'd say a scenario is something that came with the game, or directly from the developer. A fan-made scenario is a type of mod. --Becer (talk) 04:47, September 30, 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for trying, Becer; but a trifle unconvincing.

1. If the fan did no more than the developer could have done, how could you then distinguish if you didn't know who the author was?
2. If the developer publishes some fan-made scenarios along with more of its own, why would you say they differ?

I think I should seek out some official and unofficial definitions and list them for a close examination of differences.

-- Robin Patterson (Talk) 02:53, October 1, 2014 (UTC)

To me the main difference is in how to present and categorize the content. Content from official sources and unofficial sources shouldn't be presented as being exactly equivalent (not to say that users can't create content that's equally good or better) as to make it clearer to the user what they're dealing with.

This whole definition is also going to change on a game per game basis has technology and techniques have evolved. My main expertise is Civ5 and in that game the publisher released some custom scenarios as paid DLC, these scenarios are included in the game's files shipped from Steam. User created scenarios are available through the Steam Workshop (This will need to be a page at some point) under the "Mod" label and thus go through an entirely different distribution channel. Through that same distribution channel users can download a variety of mods that can modify most aspects of the game individually. Civilization Beyond Earth is sure to use a very similar model.

So here's my revised stance: Scenarios are a type of content that can come from either the publisher or users. When presenting a list of scenarios a distinction should be made as to the source of said scenarios (So a list for publisher scenarios and a list for user scenarios). To me the only criteria for labelling a scenario as "Official" is if it comes packaged with game either through retail or DLC. The As for the "Mod" label I'd say it applies to any modification of a game that was made by a user.

--Becer (talk) 03:28, October 1, 2014 (UTC)

I think Becer's right about the main difference between scenarios and mods being whether they were developed and released with the game or afterward. The only sticking point I see lies when applying this definition to other series, such as Half-Life. If you guys are familiar with it, think about content for the game such as Blue Shift, Opposing Force, and Counterstrike, and ask yourself whether these would be considered mods or scenarios. What distinguishes one from the other? Can we apply similar criteria when looking at the content of the Civilization games, or do we have to define them with different criteria?

If my point isn't really relevant and we're still not completely comfortable using Becer's criteria, this site has a functional definition that we could use, which is even applied to Civilization V itself:

"Mods extend the game by adding or changing anything from civilizations to units. Scenarios are pre-built worlds which place the player into a certain situation, sometimes with special conditions for victory."

The word "pre-built" implies that only the developers can create scenarios, while mods can be made by either the developers or the gaming community and generally affect the game on a larger scale. It seems like a good way to synthesize the question of scope with everything else we've talked about so far.

Thoughts and opinions? -Mythril Wyrm (talk) 01:01, October 4, 2014 (UTC)

I think the description that Mythril Wyrm found nails it. I think scenarios are usually mods as well, but they don't have to be. I could send you a save file of my vanilla Civ5 game, and it could be considered a scenario for you. The Civilization Fanatics site runs those Game of the Week -plays where everyone gets the same starting position and you compete on who gets the highest score. Those could be counted as scenarios as well, even though they do not modify the game rules.

Mods, on the other hand, always modify some aspect of the game. The smallest mods add a single unit or tweak some piece of the UI, but the biggest mods are so called Total Conversions, where there's little left of the original game, and they can be counted as new games.

—ZeroOne (talk) 11:05, October 4, 2014 (UTC)

Lots of ideas, still not clearly distinguishing in practical terms. After you've all read or reread Mod (video gaming), maybe we can agree that there's so little difference from a player's viewpoint that we may as well simplify our pagenames by calling them all mods?!! (And - as on Scenario (Civ2) - giving their origins wherever they are listed, so that people who care about the difference can see the authorship and can decide for themselves.) -- Robin Patterson (Talk) 04:59, October 5, 2014 (UTC)

According to Mod (video gaming) a mod is the alteration of the program code of a video game and I agree with that definition. A mod will always change the gameplay experience in some way, little matters if it's large or small. Not all scenarios modify the working of the game, many simply feature a premade map in a game where playing on different maps is a core part of the gameplay experience. This being said some scenarios really do include custom content and game rules making scenario the term that's too broad. The definition and nature of a piece of content also differs greatly from game to game.

Thus my first proposition is that we don't attempt to come up with a blanket label to apply to all games as they wouldn't really be representing the same thing. Each game can have 2 portals, one for modding resources for learning how to make custom content for that particular game and the other one listing the different kinds of custom contents available for that game.

In the specific case of Civilization V and games with similar DLC schemes I'd be inclined to list the DLC and all that it brings separately from user provided content and present it as an integral part of the game, the way we always have. It wouldn't make sense to only list Babylon in the list of custom civilizations. Under that optic I also wouldn't mix official and user scenarios as I don't feel scenarios are a type of content that needs special treatment.

So as a recap scenarios are one of many types of custom content coming from either the users or the developers. Developer content is listed with the rest of the game's content where it belongs and user content gets its own separate portal for each game. --Becer (talk) 06:47, October 5, 2014 (UTC)

Oh final note for today. One could argue that a scenario could be a type of mod, but what's certain is that not all mods are scenarios. That means they need distinct labels. As for the label "Mod" I'd rather not apply it to anything as it is much too ambiguous, preferring the usage of "cousin content" or something similar instead. --Becer (talk) 07:21, October 5, 2014 (UTC)

Freeciv outsider view, a scenario can require a mod, a mod never requires a scenario. A scenario is a close relative of a saved game, and a mod changes some aspect(s) of the game itself (sounds, rules, graphics). –Dunnoob (talk) 14:54, October 13, 2014 (UTC)